A Leap of Doubt
#042: Power, Politics, and Fundamentalism: Commentary on “The Family” Documentary (w/ Chris Shelton)

#042: Power, Politics, and Fundamentalism: Commentary on “The Family” Documentary (w/ Chris Shelton)

November 22, 2019

The subject of this episode is a secretive group of Christian nationalists and fundamentalists who have insinuated themselves into the world of American politics, including foreign policy, at the highest levels. We are discussing the group or movement simply known as “the Family,” and our vehicle for delving into this very important and eye-opening topic is the five-part Netflix documentary series The Family, which we review and offer commentary on throughout this episode. This series is based on the bestselling 2008 exposé by the same name by journalist Jeff Sharlet.

Joining me for this weighty topic is special guest Chris Shelton, host of the Sensibly Speaking Podcast. Chris has been a guest on this podcast before to talk about his former life as a Scientologist and how he managed to deconvert and leave that cult (see episodes #015 and #016). He brings a much-needed perspective on cult mindsets to this discussion of the cult of Christian nationalism and why we should all be concerned about the intrusion of Christian theocrats into the halls of American power.

 

Links

Chris Shelton on Twitter: https://twitter.com/sheltondesigner

Chris Shelton on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF326xyA0QHI7Z5xAwKQDJg/featured

The Sensibly Speaking Podcast: https://sensiblyspeaking.com/

Jeff Sharlet, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power: https://www.amazon.com/Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-Heart-American/dp/0060560053

Find the Project Blitz playbook here: https://www.au.org/sites/default/files/2019-01/Project%20Blitz%20Playbook%202018-19.pdf.

Motivated reasoning: Charles G. Lord et al., “Biased Assimilation and Attitude Polarization: The Effects of Prior Theories on Subsequently Considered Evidence,” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 37, no. 11 (1979): 2098-2109, https://tinyurl.com/rv6lc7e.

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist

The opening intro and closing outro was written by Nathan Dickey, produced and edited by Rich Lyons and read by Deanna Joy Lyons.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution

#041: Darwin and His Evolutionary Defenders (w/ Dr. David Orenstein)

#041: Darwin and His Evolutionary Defenders (w/ Dr. David Orenstein)

November 18, 2019

In this episode, I am joined by special guest Dr. David Orenstein, professor of Anthropology at Medgar Evers College of the City University of New York, to discuss his new book Darwin’s Apostles: The Men Who Fought to Have Evolution Accepted, Their Times, and How the Battle Continues, co-authored with Dr. Abby Hafer and available soon from Humanist Press.

In honor of the upcoming 160th anniversary of the day on which Charles Darwin’s Origin of Species was published, Dr. Orenstein and I talk about Darwin’s life and times and the men who supported and advocated for both Darwin’s and Alfred Russel Wallace’s grand, independently uncovered theory of evolution by natural selection. We discuss the similarities and differences in the failed challenges and attacks against evolution by the church in the nineteenth century and in our own day, why creationism consistently fails and always will, and what the future of science education and evolutionary literacy among the general public might look like in the coming years.

Links

Excerpt from the book “Darwin’s Apostles”: https://thehumanist.com/arts_entertainment/books/darwins-apostles-the-legendary-debate

Order the book: https://tinyurl.com/rq2ewyg

Dr. David Orenstein on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Paleolibrarian

About Dr. Abby Hafer: https://americanhumanist.org/what-we-do/speakers-bureau/abby-hafer/

Dr. Abby Hafer’s book “The Not-So-Intelligent Designer”(2015): https://tinyurl.com/v8oavom

Dr. David Orenstein’s book “Godless Grace” (2015): https://tinyurl.com/yx7ngyy5

Darwin Correspondence Project: https://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/

 

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist

The opening intro and closing outro was written by Nathan Dickey, produced and edited by Rich Lyons and read by Deanna Joy Lyons.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution

#040: The Case Against Miracles and Apologetics (w/ John W. Loftus)

#040: The Case Against Miracles and Apologetics (w/ John W. Loftus)

September 29, 2019

The subject of our doubt and scrutiny for this episode is miracles and the metaphysical religious truth-claims that all miracle accounts come pre-packaged with. Joining me in this discussion is my special guest, John W. Loftus, author and editor of the upcoming anthology, The Case against Miracles.

John W. Loftus is a leading atheist writer and thinker who was once an evangelical minister and Christian apologist. He has written numerous books that brilliantly counter his former religious worldview and devastate apologetics, including Why I Became an Atheist, The Outsider Test for Faith, and Unapologetic: Why Philosophy of Religion Must End.

Links:

John W. Loftus on Twitter: https://twitter.com/loftusjohnw.

John's "Debunking Christianity" blog: http://www.debunking-christianity.com/.

 

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt.

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening intro and closing outro was written by Nathan Dickey, produced and edited by Rich Lyons and read by Deanna Joy Lyons.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution.

#039: Sympathy for the Devil (w/ Jon Hammond)

#039: Sympathy for the Devil (w/ Jon Hammond)

July 23, 2019

In this episode, we are exploring the intersection of mythology, history, and common interpretations of ancient texts that many millions hold to be sacred. We’re looking at the biblical depiction of the Christian God’s arch-nemesis and rival in a new light, one that does not take the traditional Christian perspective for granted. If it’s the case that history is written largely by the winners, and that we are all the hero of our own internal narrative, then what kind of alternative story might unfold if we try looking at the biblical narrative from Satan’s point of view?

That’s the question author and illustrator Jon Hammond explores in the form of The Falling Star, a unique and fascinating graphic novel that tells Satan’s side of the story. It tells the story of Samael, the first being created by the god Yahweh and one of the highest angels of the heavenly host, a character most people recognize as the supposed villain Satan, or the Devil. I am joined by Jon Hammond himself to talk about his inspirations and process as a storyteller and artist when it comes to the mythology and folklore surrounding these themes.

Links

Buy The Falling Star on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Star-Jon-Hammond/dp/1912701901.

The Falling Star Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/TheFallingStarComic/.

The Gospel According to Jon (Facebook page): https://www.facebook.com/thegospelaccordingtojon/.

Jon Hammond’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/hamo1701/videos?view_as=subscriber.

David Gee, “A New Comic Tells Story of the Bible from Satan’s Perspective,” Friendly Atheist, June 16, 2019, https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/06/16/a-new-comic-tells-story-of-the-bible-from-satans-perspective/.

 

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt.

Consider supporting me Patreon if you enjoy the show: http://www.patreon.com/aleapofdoubt. Thanks to Jeff Prebeg, Jeanne Ikerd, Torsten Pihl, Chris Watson, Kim Bojkovsky, Freethinker215, and Rob Schreck for being my patrons!

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening intro and closing outro was written by Nathan Dickey, produced and edited by Rich Lyons and read by Deanna Joy Lyons.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution.

#038: Escaping Religious Purity Culture (w/ Linda Kay Klein)

#038: Escaping Religious Purity Culture (w/ Linda Kay Klein)

July 8, 2019

On this episode, we cover the evangelical Christian “purity movement” that emerged primarily as an American phenomenon in the 1990s. This movement built an entire industry out of the concept of purity and abstinence from any and all sexual expression. The resulting subculture saw the marketing of purity rings, purity pledges, and purity balls. But the message this movement offered was a dangerous one that has devastated many lives, especially girls and women but also for men as well.

My special guest for this episode, Linda Kay Klein, has an insider’s perspective on the purity culture and why it’s so devastating to psychological and physical wellbeing. She is the founder of Break Free Together. A storyteller and social innovator, Linda has spent over a decade working at the intersection of faith, gender, sexuality, and social change. She earned an interdisciplinary master’s degree from New York University focusing on American evangelical Christian gender and sexuality messaging, and she is the author of the book Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free, available from Touchstone Publishers.

Links

Linda Kay Klein website: https://lindakayklein.com/

Follow Linda Kay Klein on Twitter: https://twitter.com/LindaKayKlein

Buy Linda’s book: https://tinyurl.com/y69b49f3

Tina Schermer Sellers, “A Biblical Scholar and Clinical Sexologist Debate Christian Sexual Purity,” June 22, 2012, https://tinyurl.com/y4euqre6.

 

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt.

Consider supporting me Patreon if you enjoy the show: http://www.patreon.com/aleapofdoubt. Thanks to Jeff Prebeg, Jeanne Ikerd, Torsten Pihl, Chris Watson, Kim Bojkovsky, Freethinker215, and Rob Schreck for being my patrons!

 Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening intro and closing outro was written by Nathan Dickey, produced and edited by Rich Lyons and read by Deanna Joy Lyons.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution.

#037: Christian Nationalism’s Founding Myth (w/ Andrew L. Seidel)

#037: Christian Nationalism’s Founding Myth (w/ Andrew L. Seidel)

June 19, 2019

My guest for this episode is Andrew L. Seidel, an atheist, secular activist, and constitutional and civil rights attorney at the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), which has been instrumental in litigating many successful cases involving entanglements between religion and the US Constitution. Andrew has written extensively about religious freedom and the wall of separation between church and state. He is the author of a new book, “The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is Un-American.”

In this conversation, Andrew and I discuss the threat posed by Christian Nationalists and theocrats to American (i.e. secular) values, debunk a few of the major myths put forward by “Christian Nation” historical revisionists, talk about why we need to bring emotion to the fight against theocracy, not just facts, and what average everyday citizens can do to aid in that fight.

Links:

John F. Kennedy’s Commencement Address at Yale University, 11 June 1962: https://tinyurl.com/yycregle.

Freedom From Religion Foundation: https://ffrf.org/.

Andrew L. Seidel’s website: http://andrewlseidel.com/.

Follow Andrew on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AndrewLSeidel.

Andrew’s book: https://tinyurl.com/y2vxf3k2.

The Christian Nationalists’ 2018-19 “Project Blitz” playbook: https://www.au.org/sites/default/files/2019-01/Project%20Blitz%20Playbook%202018-19.pdf.

Marc J. Ambinder, “Inside the Council for National Policy: Meet the Most Powerful Conservative Group You’ve Never Heard Of,” ABCNews.com, May 2, 2002, https://tinyurl.com/y6sqrv5e.

Council for National Policy, 2014 membership directory (essentially a Who’s Who of Christian theocrats): https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/cnp_redacted_final.pdf.

Jeff Prebeg’s Extra Life fundraising gaming campaign benefiting Children’s Hospital of Pittsburgh Foundation:  https://www.extra-life.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=donordrive.participant&participantID=347752.

Special thanks to Natalie Newell, who has been featured on this podcast before, for helping to set up my interview with Andrew.  

 

Thanks to Jeff Prebeg, Jeanne Ikerd, Torsten Pihl, Chris Watson, Kim Bojkovsky, Freethinker215, and Rob Schreck for being my patrons!

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening clip is an excerpt from the audiobook “God is Not Great” by Christopher Hitchens, courtesy of Hachette Audio. Text Copyright 2007 by Christopher Hitchens. Audio production copyright 2007, Hachette Audio. Used with permission.

The opening and ending music is “Jade” by Esther Nicholson and is used under license.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution.

#036: Transgender Representation in Fiction (w/ Dharma Kelleher)

#036: Transgender Representation in Fiction (w/ Dharma Kelleher)

June 13, 2019

My guest for this episode is Dharma Kelleher. One of the few transgender authors in crime fiction, Dharma writes gritty novels (four in all, with more to come) about outlaws, renegades, and misfits, all with a progressive bent and written from a trans/queer perspective. Her novels include the Jinx Ballou Bounty Hunter series and the Shea Stevens outlaw biker series. She is a former journalist and currently a member of Sisters in Crime, the International Thriller Writers, and the Alliance of Independent Authors. Her work has appeared on Shotgun Honey and in the new “Murder-A-Go-Go’s” anthology.

Dharma and I discuss her process of creating characters, researching gritty elements of society, and the challenges and joys associated with representing transgender women and men as the protagonists and heroes they deserve to be. We also dive into some history, discussing the Stonewall Riots of 1969 and Dharma’s own personal story of transitioning in the early 1990s. For this episode, Dharma also reads the first chapter of “Chaser,” the first book in her Jinx Ballou series.

Links

“Murder-A-Go-Go’s: Crime Fiction inspired by the Music of The Go-Go’s”: https://downandoutbooks.com/bookstore/west-murder-go-gos/

Dharma Kelleher’s website: https://dharmakelleher.com/

Dharma Kelleher on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zenpunkdharma

Dharma’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMH4bZhCBufbzBh6w5HQgTA.

The Writer’s Detective Bureau podcast: https://www.writersdetective.com/podcast.html

“Linda Fairstein: Literary Group Rescinds Honor over Role in Central Park Five Case,” The Guardian, November 29, 2018, https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/29/linda-fairstein-mystery-writers-of-america-grand-master-award-rescinded.

Gavia Baker-Whitelaw, “Writers Want this Book Canceled for Misgendering its Protagonist,” The Daily Dot, February 15, 2019, https://www.dailydot.com/irl/cape-doctor-book-james-barry-transgender/.

Kristian Wilson, “Forthcoming Book about Surgeon Dr. James Barry Has Sparked an Important Conversation about Trans Stories,” Bustle, February 25, 2019, https://tinyurl.com/y2n2ghqj.

Trans Day of Remembrance (TDoR) has published a full list of the 369 transgender and gender non-conforming individuals who lost their lives in 2018: https://tinyurl.com/y3kfb9fx.

 

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt.

Consider supporting me Patreon if you enjoy the show: http://www.patreon.com/aleapofdoubt.

Thanks to Jeff Prebeg, Jeanne Ikerd, Torsten Pihl, Chris Watson, Kim Bojkovsky, Freethinker215, and Rob Schreck for being my patrons!

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening clip is an excerpt from the audiobook “God is Not Great” by Christopher Hitchens, courtesy of Hachette Audio. Text Copyright 2007 by Christopher Hitchens. Audio production copyright 2007, Hachette Audio. Used with permission.

The opening and ending music is “Jade” by Esther Nicholson and is used under license.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution.

#035: American Intolerance of Immigrants is Not New

#035: American Intolerance of Immigrants is Not New

May 22, 2019

The history of America’s treatment of the “poor and huddled masses” tells a very different story than the one we’re often accustomed to hearing, one of hostility and exclusion toward outsiders who looked to America to live up to its promise. Contrary to popular belief, the poor and huddled masses were never welcome in America.

On this episode, we discuss America’s dark history of demonizing and excluding immigrants, and how the current xenophobia and racism exhibited by the Trump administration toward Mexican and Muslim immigrants and refugees is only the latest chapter in a long series of immigrant panics. Included in our survey is the anti-Catholic conspiracy theories of the nineteenth century, the discrimination and harassment experienced by German-Americans during WWI, the mass internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII, and the unfounded fear of Jewish immigrants and refugees from Nazi Germany. We also discuss why the concept of race has no validity in science and use statistics and evidence to debunk present-day fears of Muslim “terrorists.”

Joining me as my special guest for this uncomfortable but hugely relevant and important discussion is Robert E. Bartholomew, one of the two authors of the book “American Intolerance: Our Dark History of Demonizing Immigrants” (Prometheus Books, 2018). Bartholomew is an American-born medical sociologist, journalist, and human rights advocate who currently serves as a history instructor at Botany College, in Auckland, New Zealand. He has written 15 books and published more than 60 articles in a number of professional journals. According to his website, Dr. Bartholomew “has written on an array of topics ranging from human social and cultural diversity, to mass hysteria, social delusions, moral panics, fads, collective behavior, the history of tabloid journalism, history of the paranormal, popular myths and folklore.”

Links:

Robert E. Bartholomew’s website: https://robertebartholomew.com/.

The book: https://www.amazon.com/American-Intolerance-History-Demonizing-Immigrants/dp/1633884481.

 

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt.

Consider supporting me Patreon if you enjoy the show: http://www.patreon.com/aleapofdoubt.

Thanks to Jeff Prebeg, Jeanne Ikerd, Torsten Pihl, Chris Watson, Kim Bojkovsky, and Rob Schreck for being my patrons!

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening clip is an excerpt from the audiobook “God is Not Great” by Christopher Hitchens, courtesy of Hachette Audio. Text Copyright 2007 by Christopher Hitchens. Audio production copyright 2007, Hachette Audio. Used with permission.

The opening and ending music is “Jade” by Esther Nicholson and is used under license.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution

#034: Did Jesus Exist? (w/ David Fitzgerald)

#034: Did Jesus Exist? (w/ David Fitzgerald)

November 14, 2018

In this episode, we are doubting the historical existence of a man you may have heard about: Jesus of Nazareth. Ever since critical biblical scholarship began in the eighteenth century, largely a product of the Enlightenment, the consensus among mainstream historians and religious scholars has been that a man named Jesus did historically exist in Palestine and was crucified by the Romans in the first decades of the Common Era. Although these biblical critics did doubt and challenge the reality of the New Testament’s portrait of Jesus as a miracle worker and divinely appointed savior, they did think – or, more precisely, assume – that there was a real man named Jesus upon whom theological legends were later based. But there has always been another school of thought. The mythicists argued that not only was the Christ of faith a theological fantasy, but the Jesus of history was also a fiction. Jesus, said the mythicist scholars, never even existed historically.

Did Jesus exist as a historical figure? That is the question we are exploring here today on this podcast. Joining me as my special guest is David Fitzgerald, an author and historical researcher who has been actively investigating the Historical Jesus question for over 20 years. He has a degree in history and was an associate member of the Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion (CSER). He has authored five books, including “Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All” and the three-volume work “Jesus: Mything in Action.” I have a guest co-host joining me for this episode as well, my friend and former colleague from the dearly-departed Trolling with Logic podcast, Wolf McNamara.

Doubter of the Week: Marian Evans, aka “George Eliot” (1819-1880): Victorian poet, novelist, and freethinker, who translated Strauss’ “Life of Jesus, Critically Examined” into English.

Links:

David Fitzgerald on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dgcfitzgerald

David Fitzgerald book “Nailed”: https://tinyurl.com/y8f4o3x5

David Fitzgerald’s “Jesus: Mything in Action” books: https://tinyurl.com/y6wenp4j

David Fitzgerald, “Examining the Existence of a Historical Jesus” (Skepticon 3 lecture, 2010): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvleOBYTrDE

 

Join the official discussion group of this podcast at www.facebook.com/groups/aleapofdoubt.

Consider supporting me Patreon if you enjoy the show: http://www.patreon.com/aleapofdoubt.

Thanks to Jeff Prebeg, Jeanne Ikerd, Torsten Pihl, Chris Watson, and Kim Bojkovsky for being my patrons!

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening clip is an excerpt from the audiobook “God is Not Great” by Christopher Hitchens, courtesy of Hachette Audio. Text Copyright 2007 by Christopher Hitchens. Audio production copyright 2007, Hachette Audio. Used with permission.

The opening and ending music is “Jade” by Esther Nicholson and is used under license. The editing was done by Rich Lyons of the “Living After Faith” podcast.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution.

#033: Reviewing “Wild Wild Country” (w/ Chris Watson)

#033: Reviewing “Wild Wild Country” (w/ Chris Watson)

November 7, 2018

Eastern mysticism clashes with rural America in this episode, as we recount a tale of religious bigotry, government paranoia, bombings, wiretapping, poisonings, assassination attempts, and airplane chases. I am joined by my good friend and patron the show Chris Watson, host of The Podunk Polymath Podcast, to review and discuss the six-part Netflix documentary series Wild Wild Country. The series chronicles the rise and fall of Rajneeshpuram, the once-thriving city established in 1981 in central Oregon by the Indian guru and mystic Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and his followers.

We discuss the moral panic instigated by the residents of the small town of Antelope, Oregon, in response to the Rajneeshees’ arrival, and how their fear of change was able to influence the Federal government to side with them and express the same prejudice. We also ponder the question of whether or not the prejudice and bigotry displayed toward the guru and his followers is what pushed the guru’s personal secretary, Ma Anand Sheela, to go behind the guru’s back and orchestrate statewide bioterrorism acts and assassination attempts of government officials and journalists. We also explore the implications for the United States’ constitutional freedom of religion and how the government failed to uphold it.

Links:

Wild Wild Country official trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBLS_OM6Puk

Chris Watson’s Podunk Polymath Podcast: https://thepodunkpolymath.com/

Chris Watson on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PodunkPolymath

Further reading:

“Read The Oregonian’s Original 20-part Investigative Series on Rajneeshees,” The Oregonian, April 6, 2018, https://tinyurl.com/y8o53h6s

Kirk Braun, Rajneeshpuram: The Unwelcome Society (Scout Creek Press, 1984)

James S. Gordon, The Golden Guru: The Strange Journey of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (The Stephen Greene Press, 1987)

Win McCormack, The Rajneesh Chronicles: The True Story of the Cult that Unleashed the First Act of Bioterrorism on U.S. Soil (Tin House Books, 2010)

Donna Quick, A Place Called Antelope: The Rajneesh Story (August Press, 1995)

Ma Anand Sheela, Don’t Kill Him! The Story of My Life with Bhagwan Rajneesh (Fingerprint, 2013).

Jane Stork, Breaking the Spell: My Life as a Rajneeshee and the Long Journey Back to Freedom (Pan Macmillan, 2009)

 

Consider supporting me Patreon if you enjoy the show: http://www.patreon.com/aleapofdoubt. Thanks to Jeff Prebeg, Jeanne Ikerd, Torsten Pihl, Chris Watson, and Kim Bojkovsky for being my patrons!

Follow me on Twitter at https://twitter.com/TheNatheist.

The opening clip is an excerpt from the audiobook “God is Not Great” by Christopher Hitchens, courtesy of Hachette Audio. Text Copyright 2007 by Christopher Hitchens. Audio production copyright 2007, Hachette Audio. Used with permission.

The opening and ending music is “Jade” by Esther Nicholson and is used under license. The editing was done by Rich Lyons of the “Living After Faith” podcast.

Check out our website: https://reasonrevolution.org.

Give us a like on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reasonrevolution.